How Religious People Ruin the Holidays Part II
Perhaps I am not communicating my point clearly enough. I think it is a lack of mutual respect for all religions and cultures combined with a lack of back bone on the part of the public school system and the government in general.
The public school system is supposed to educate the “public” not cater to the “Christians” or “Atheists” or any other specific religion or belief system.
If you allow your children to attend “Public School” then when each holiday rolls around it should be perfectly ok to teach about that holiday, learn about the traditions and music.
What is not ok, is to get into a battle over whether its ok to teach about “Christmas” but not “Yule” because some who call themselves “Christian” consider anything that is not their brand of “Christian” to be evil.
If you or your children attend a Public School and you are offended by a Christmas tree, then that is your own issue and the whole world shouldn’t be expected to change because YOU don’t like something. This is a free country and you can send your kids to school elsewhere.
If you really have a problem with other religions sharing the same amount of attention as yours then you belong in a school that caters to your specific religion. Taking all religious identity away from everyone is not going to teach our kids to get along with others in this country.
By the way, the phrase “Under God” has not always been in the Pledge of Allegiance. Here is a brief summary from http://undergodprocon.org
“The Pledge of Allegiance was first written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy, a Baptist Minister and Socialist, for the patriotic family magazine The Youth’s Companion. At that time it read “I Pledge Allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands; one nation indivisible, with liberty and Justice for all.”The Pledge officially became part of the U.S. Flag Code in 1942. In 1954 the words “under God” were added to the Pledge by Congress with approval from President Dwight Eisenhower.”
That being said, if you don’t want to say “Under God” in the pledge then don’t say it. I don’t think we are at the point (yet) where we are forced to say anything in this country. But if the phrase Under God offends you so much you think no one should be allowed to say it then you don’t belong in the public school system.
The problem is when a school wants to do something insane like teach science instead of creationism the likes of Pat Robertson will go on to their multi million dollar network to mobilize their zombie army to pressure the state representatives and governors and senators to exert pressure against science in favor of their version of reality.
This is sick and I don’t appreciate my tax dollars allowing such pandering, but they do.
That’s why I say this isn’t because of those evil godless Liberals. There are some who are off the deep end and believe separation of church and state means the exclusion of all religious discussion from the public forum, but the majority of Liberals I know and what I consider myself to be, believe that everyone has a right to their point of view as long as they are not harming, threatening or trying to convert anyone.
I believe that school should teach about Christianity and Wicca and Judaism and Islam and every other religion under the sun and can also teach that violence in the name of religion is WRONG. And persecution in the name of religion is WRONG and the Spanish inquisition and the Burning Times in Europe when people (mostly women) were tortured and burned to death by the Christian church was WRONG and evil. Not to mention teaching that blowing yourself up in a plane or a marketplace with the hope of killing as many other people as possible is WRONG.
I don’t know of a single person who is in favor of separation of church and state being interested in seeing words with religious roots somehow eradicated. By that rationale, someone who thinks the phrase “Good By” and the word “Holiday” should not be used in a government building is just as ridiculous as a “Christian” refusing to use words like:
AMEN which According to Funk and Wagnall’s Standard College Dictionary, AMEN was the god of life and procreation in Egyptian mythology, and later identified with the Sun-god as the supreme deity and called “Amen-Ra”or
BIBLE The word “Bible” for The Scriptures was first used about A.D. 400. papyrus, on which all documents were written was imported from Egypt through the Phoenician seaport Gebal, which the Greeks called Byblos or Byblus. This seaport was the home of the Phoenician Sun-deity. This city was founded by Baal
I think the word game argument is weak at best unless as a person who is against the separation of church and state will research and only use words that have biblical origin. Good luck with that because society was pagan a lot longer than it has been Christian.
Insanity aside, it is hard to teach tolerance and it is hard to demand people show respect for each other but if we could get strong teachers, administrators and legislators the hard work could start and maybe the world could become a better place where we can have Halloween and Christmas and all of the other holidays back.
But we would have to have people who would respect peoples rights to believe what they want, and not force their own belief system on them.
This is one of the only safe countries in the world that this can happen. We haven’t started jailing people for naming teddy bears yet but we do have “Christians” who think its ok to shoot doctors, bomb clinics and send anthrax to Planned Parenthood so I guess we can’t be too smug about it. The fact that we can’t have holidays isn’t the fault of the big bad Liberal under the bed. The hard core Christian Conservatives have had more than their share to do with it too!
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As much as I would like to, I’m afraid I don’t see what relevance this has to religion ruining the holidays. Nor do I see how this refutes the idea of liberal-advocated ideals altering holidays for the worse. (Of course, that is, assuming this is a retort to my previous piece.)
You can honestly say that ONLY Liberals are interested in political correctness
And Liberals are some how responsible for religious people for demanding that their religion be given preferential treatment?
Of course there are other parties interested in ‘political correctness’, but the concept itself is Liberal-rooted and Liberal-created.
(Less-govornment, to give another example, is generally a Republican concept – but that is not to say that there is no such thing as a Democrat who thinks there should be less governmental influence).
Also, no religion demands preferential treatment. I believe it was in your last article, you, yourself said:
“It is so sad that my children will never have the same experiences that I did growing up because holiday decorations, and the general spirit of good will that comes with the seasons are quickly becoming a thing of the past. ”
As I pointed out, the reason holiday decorations, general spirit of “good will”, etc. are slowly diminishing is not because of Religion. It was Religion that created these traditions in the first place. The reason I cannot decorate a public place with Santa, or something of that matter is not because other Religions say, “Gragh! You cannot do this, I am offended!” – It’s because a small minority may hint to that, and, being the way it is, our society caters to the silliest of ideas.
If one were to suggest that all various holidays be taught, studied, decorated, etc.; then we would all be in an endless flood of having to learn information about the millions of different cultures and the like. It would be more of a detriment than anything.
Keep going I am enjoying this!
I don’t think it would be detrimental if a school had an open minded policy about holidays-so for example you acknowledged the major cultures with the obvious ability to teach about another culture should the need arise.
My problem with the people that come to mind are those who say You can’t have Halloween because its pagan, you can’t have Christmas unless it is observed as a religious holiday so no Santa and Rudolph, no Easter bunny-because of the Crucifixion.
What I wish we could have again is
Halloween-Pumpkins ,costumes ghost stories, Christmas-Santa, Rudolph, Christmas Trees, Easter-Easter Bunny.
That is what I miss, when I was growing up, we didn’t get into the religious aspects of the Holidays. We really only celebrated in secular ways. Religion its self was kept out of it for the most part because it belonged in church. If religion was discussed at all it was very minor and we concentrated about the fun of the holiday. The “religious” people I think of are the ones who demand that every holiday be expressed through its religious origin. I think that is what is at the base of a lot of the problems people have with Holidays in public. Its not Christmas with Santa and Christmas Trees-It is DEMANDED that Christmas is all about the Birth of Christ. That does not belong in public school- not the prohibition of the discussion but it being necessary that the focus be on the religious origin, which is especially funny because Christmas was created to replace the pagan holiday Yule!
That is why a lot of people think that the Religious Right give Christians a bad name. Its their way or the highway. You can’t say Happy Holidays because they get really pissed off that you aren’t saying merry CHRIST-Mas.
It certainly doesn’t help to have some people who are offended by everything and think that nothing should be in the schools or on the town square.
The Holidays need to be returned to being fun and not a platform of the Religious Right to try and force people to conform to their belief system.
The atheists or whatever are just as bad because they are ruining it for everyone.
I think the biggest fault of the “Liberals” is they don’t want anyone to feel bad or excluded. So the easiest way to avoid conflict is to ban it all together. I am not saying its right but it is the easiest solution.
I don’t agree with it but when schools and local government become in conflict because the religious whatever doesn’t feel you are observing holidays in a religious enough way that is a big help in giving atheists etc something to bitch about.
Do I think this is the universal reason? No but I think that if schools celebrated the holidays the way they did in the 1970′s and 1980′s and stuck to their guns about how they did it we could have them again.
I received this email today…thought you might enjoy it:
Subject: The Law is the Law
The Law is the Law
I really love this one! This is one of the better e-mails I have
received in a long time!
I hope this makes its way around the USA several times over!
Since we can’t pray to God, I don’t believe the Government and its
employees should participate in the Easter and Christmas celebrations
which honor the God that our government is eliminating from many
facets of American life.
I’d like my mail delivered on Christmas, Good Friday, Thanksgiving &
Easter. After all, it’s just another day.
I’d like the ” US Supreme Court to be in session on Christmas, Good
Friday, Thanksgiving & Easter as well as Sundays.” After all, it’s
just another day.
I’d like the Senate and the House of Representatives to not have to
worry about getting home for the “Christmas Break.” After all it’s
just another day.
I’m thinking that a lot of my taxpayer dollars could be saved, if all
government offices & services would work on Christmas, Good Friday &
Easter. It shouldn’t cost any overtime since those would be just like
any other day of the week to a government that is trying to be
“politically correct.”
In fact….
I think that our government should work on Sundays (initially set
aside for worshipping God…) because, after all, our government says
that it should be just another day….
What do you all think????
If this idea gets to enough people, maybe our elected officials will
stop giving in to the “minority opinions” and begin, once again, to
represent the “majority” of ALL of the American people.
SO BE IT………..
Please Dear Lord,
Give us the help needed to keep you in our country! ‘Amen’ and ‘Amen’ Touché!
These are definitely things I never thought about but from now on, I
will be sure to question those in
government who support these changes.
At the top, it says “I hope this makes its way around the USA several
times over!!!!!”
Let’s see that it does.
See that kind of message proves my point, holidays, days off etc. are not ONLY about religion. I am sure they started that way but over time things have changed whether for good or bad to make a lot of the holidays and weekends more secular.
So the people who believe in this feel that those who don’t adhere to the strict “Christian” belief system don’t deserve weekends or holidays. And then they wonder why a lot of people don’t want anything to do with them. Not EVERYONE lives their religion and it doesn’t make them terrible people.
If you want to silently pray in a building, government or otherwise there is no way anyone can stop you. But when you decide to announce that there will be prayer in some public place with a specific religion in mind that you expect the entire population to bow to it is wrong. Then, you are ramming your religion down someone else’s throat. That is why these big conflicts have arisen and have led to holidays being stopped.
Who wants to get into a huge conflict every holiday over who’s religion is right, whose prayer should be heard? Keep religion in its place-at church.
There are plenty of people who are all gung ho about public prayer but I doubt they would be if they really gave it some thought.
They are fine as long as it’s a Christian prayer, but would you like to have a Muslim or Hindu prayer in school? Would you be fighting for the right of religion everywhere if it meant you HAD to face Mecca and pray at the appointed time? I am thinking that there are very few who would. So go ahead, allow prayer in schools but whose prayer? Allow religion in every aspect of government but be prepared for a shock when the Jewish people and the Muslim people demand that their religion be respected too. This is another thing I doubt would be popular
Give the majority back their holidays because I firmly believe that the majority of people just want to have fun with holidays and have Santa and Christmas trees which is what I remember from my childhood in public school when I was growing up.
This is clear hostility on the part of the religious community against those who choose not to follow their directives or believe the way they want everyone to believe. And, it is really convenient that it can all be labeled as these Liberals being Politically Correct and a Liberal conspiracy. It is much easier to vilify the people who don’t agree with you. Demean their point of view, then you don’t have to acknowledge that people have a right in this country to NOT believe in God and NOT believe in God THE WAY the self appointed authorities think you should and still have holidays.
Every soldier that has died for our freedom, died so we would all have a right to believe or not believe in this free country. To say that whoever this collective “WE” is has the right to dictate what you should believe in order to have a right to have holidays and weekends is WRONG.
I would passionately defend your right to be the most Conservative Christian in this world, but what I do not agree with is being demeaning others who either don’t believe or choose to keep their Christianity or whatever private.
One of my favorite quotes is “The right to swing my fist ends where the other man’s nose begins.” — Oliver Wendell Holmes
I think that is something to keep in mind when you want to deride people for not following the same religious path as you.
So, basically, we should be able to take what we want from religion, but disapprove of what we don’t want? “Well, I’ll use a religious holiday for my day off, but fight against anything else originating in religion.” It doesn’t make sense to me that one would claim to remove religion from something that is religious. If religion is to be completely removed, then to have a religious holiday is hypocritical.
You cannot “give the majority their holiday back” because it was never the majority’s holiday. It was, is, and will be Religion’s holiday.
It doesn’t seem very ethical to claim use of something religious, then want to take religion out of it.
Also, Robyn, right?
You’re not very liberal.
If you work for a company that will grant you for time off on religious holidays and you lie to get a free day off, then you are unethical.
Every holiday that exists has its basis somewhere in religion. There are many many many practices and occasions in our daily lives that began as religious rituals.
As these things evolved over time and became a part of our culture a lot of the religious aspects faded back.
Thnksgiving was once a day of fasting and prayer. Christmas was nota celebration until Victorian times. So Christians have some issues to think about before throwing stones at others.
So is it ethical if you celebrate a holiday if you are not celebrating it the way it was originally created? Or is it only unelthical if you don’t celebrate it in the CHRISTIAN way?
Christmas was designated at this time of year to mimic the pagan Yule festival. Biblical scolars say that Christ was probably born in the spring. In some pagan religions where they celebrate the birth of the god to the mother Goddess at this time of year in the darkest part of winter. Paganism, and Polytheism is the true origin of “religion” and most if not all Christian rituals are based on pagan rituals and ceremonies, SO are you un ethical because you celebrate holidays in a Christian and not Pagan fashion?
Talk about just taking what you want from religion and disregarding what you don’t want!!! That is exactly what the Christians did!
As for the comment about my not being very liberal. I don’t know you, so I don’t know if that was meant as a compliment or an insult, but I do consider myself to be liberal- Fact of the matter is liberals don’t all fit neatly into the categories and boxes conservatives want to put them in. To be liberal you don’t have to read a manual and sign a loyalty oath unlike some Republicans I have heard of. Being progressive spans a wide variety of opinions-some very liberal and some conservative but in my mind being liberal is the same as being open minded. When I see the Republican’s all in lock step I am not impressed. I think being open minded and not so drunk on cool-aide helps you see the world a lot more clearly.
The holidays are gone as I knew them growing up. Society is too far gone to extremes to ever see them come back.
And, for the record I am not an atheist. I consider myself spiritual rather than religious and I don’t care what anyone beleives in. You can worship trees or be a die hard Catholic. As long as you aren’t harming anyone or try and force your religion on me or my kids, I think its wonderful for you.
But one thing I will never agree with is that something as personal as religion belongs in our government.
You can be a moral atheist, but just take a look at the condition of our country right now and see what having a Born Again Christian running everything has turned us into. Or maybe you think everything is wonderful in the country?
Here’s an idea, maybe all of the churches should start paying taxes? If the church wants to be in all aspects of society why shouldn’t they pay taxes like the rest of us?
They benefit from public services like Fire Department, Police and Public works to keep their facilities safe how ethical is it to accept all that from society and give nothing back to support it and expect the other tax payers in the community to shoulder their burden?
You can’t reason with beleif. If you beleive that people who don’t immerse themself in Christianity are bad people and are some how lesser people then there is nothing that will convince you differently.
Merry “Christ”mas to all who believe in Christ !!!
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